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Post by ballyboy on Mar 24, 2013 23:38:13 GMT
There are is not an Irish company big enough to take on project of this size so it will go to tender and more than likely it will be a German or Dutch company because they will have the financial backing of their banks, he who pays the piper calls the tune. They in turn will sub contract to Irish firms, now that is not ideal because from my experience Irish firms are the worst payers of all, very few of them are honourable. Most materials will come from local suppliers, they won't be importing concrete for example, the steel fab will also be local. all the heavy plant will also be local, though they will have to bring some of it back from Poland, the big machines went there when our construction bubble burst.
As for my environmental stance. I am all for renewable energy sources and wind is one of them, we can supply it. When I pull up at a petrol/diesel pump and look at the price I am acutely aware that the oil producers have me and the rest of the world by the b_lls. Most of the worlds conflicts are about oil, if there was no oil in the middle east would the Americans, Russians and the Brits be there behind the scenes, I doubt it. Nuclear is too dangerous and when it goes wrong the biggest polluter of all and oil is not that far behind. If we can produce energy and put it into the energy chain it WILL cut the worlds reliance on fossil fuels somewhat and if other countries follow our example think of the change it will make. Saying the Brits rejected it as an argument is bull, why can't we be leaders, why do we have to look across the water for inspiration
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Post by ballyboy on Mar 24, 2013 23:52:07 GMT
By the way there is also a plan to build up to 7 bio fuel electricity plants in this country over the next few years for export into the European market, as far as I am aware the will be on a 10 year lease and then go back to the state, only draw back is the pressure to sell of our state forests most of which mature in the next 10 years or so. Why do you think the Troika and IMF have cast their beady eyes in that direction. In my opinion we are looking the wrong way, we should be looking to exploit their needs not appease them
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Post by joepublic on Mar 25, 2013 0:09:37 GMT
The cost of petrol is 72.01c per Litre before duty and tax so don't totally blame the oil producers for the exorbitant price.
From BBC News website re. proposed 180m high wind turbines for Ireland
Richard Tol, professor of economics at University of Sussex, said he felt that the whole scheme was "crazy" and would not work in the long term .
"From an Irish perspective this is not selling the family silver; this is giving it away. There is no money staying in Ireland that I can see.
But from the British perspective it is a good deal," he said."
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Post by ballyboy on Mar 25, 2013 1:01:29 GMT
A British professor no less and an economics one at that, someone should point out to him that there is no actual cost to the Irish state, the wind will blow or it will not, when it does some company some where will make money, when it doesn't a worker in the Irish economy will still get paid, hope he's an Irish man/woman and the land owner will still get rent, he/she will more than likely be Irish, he surly doesn't think that the above is going to be given for free. If the man is right then the windmill will have to come down and this possibility should be a big part of any deal with the land owners and the best way to insure this is to have an indexed linked compensation package that has to be paid by those receiving the supply as the construction companies will be long gone
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Post by joepublic on Mar 25, 2013 1:29:09 GMT
When we gain from our off shore oil and gas fields I might begin to believe you.
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Post by ballyboy on Mar 25, 2013 1:49:12 GMT
Bord gais supplies to most major towns in Kildare, if your from Monasterevin you should be pushing our local TD for us to get it
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Post by darchangel on Mar 25, 2013 12:30:36 GMT
I think he means Ireland rather than Monasterevin.
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Post by darchangel on Mar 25, 2013 12:37:37 GMT
The ShellToSea campaign was/is(?) a fight to the death to (1) preserve our lived-in environment and (b) highlight the fact the profits from sale of gas/oil found in Irish waters are not going to the Irish Exchequer coffers, rather into the pockets of Statoil and Shell. Same thing will happen with these wind farms. Is this some sort of revenge on the people for daring to defy their government ? Im not sure of the status of the STS project in 2013 such is the media clampdown on it. It caused a massive amount of bad publicity for all concerned and demonstrated to me at least the very tight link that now exists between gov-large corporations-law enforcement. _This_ troika are our worst nightmare come true. They can do anything they want to us to generate a profit. Thats the world we now live in - profit before people as yer man up in Dun Laoghaire (nearly) has printed on his election posters. So lets get real and stop the smoke screen of job creation, preserving the environment and us all benefitting form it. We all now know who benefits from these large scale projects and sure isnt the little guy. We wont even get cheaper electricity ! If we were , I think Id def support locating some windfarms close to us here. Ireland is too physically small to justify a nuclear power station and we are way too dependent on imported oil. We have oil + gas in our waters and we have lots of bloody wind. So lets use both to improve Irish tax payers lives first and export the remainder , no ?? Construction jobs are transient, the damage is permanent. The same arguments were used during the Celtic Tiger to justify all sorts of crazy construction nonsense and that contributed hugely to bringing the entire country down into hell. So we're definitely not accepting that argument now given how many people are suffering as a result. This is a small country so we ought do things on a small scale that everyone can understand and buy into. Whoring out our resources to our bigger neighbours also smacks of the old colonial mindset. Dangerous waters to swim in. The Torys in the UK have used the law to ensure these wind farms are not built in any of their constituencies (ie leafy suburbs and home counties). Funnily enough, there are no plans to built these farms on any coastal counties in ireland either - Louth, Dublin , Wicklow, Cork, Kerry etc where all our mountains reside and wind speeds are highest I smell a medium size adolescent rat on the prowl. But as I said earlier, lets wait and see what happens before deciding what to do next.
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Post by grainnewhale on Mar 25, 2013 13:20:33 GMT
Regarding the argument - 'Employment and Jobs for Locals' - I am always skeptical about the amount of jobs these wind farms actually create, these turbines are manufactured and then erected by a few specialists. From then on they are checked and readings taken from time to time by an individual who would cover a very large area. The number of jobs for locals is zilch.
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Post by darchangel on Mar 25, 2013 14:16:14 GMT
Regarding the argument - 'Employment and Jobs for Locals' - I am always skeptical about the amount of jobs these wind farms actually create, these turbines are manufactured and then erected by a few specialists. From then on they are checked and readings taken from time to time by an individual who would cover a very large area. The number of jobs for locals is zilch. Agreed Grainne. Its a smokescreen. Id also like to ask ballyboy if he would answer a question re landowners he referred to earlier. Are they close to the Monasterevin town boundary ? Not asking for ids or locations, just a yes/no. This is not a _private_ matter, it will affect us all - hopefully for the better - but lets have it out in the open so we can all be party to the process.
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forester
Full Member
''yipee'' i'm through
Posts: 1,252
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Post by forester on Mar 25, 2013 14:35:54 GMT
ok, ok. but what i am getting at is this--why the feck should we put those turbines in our beautiful country, to generate power for england. surely to jayjus they have wind blowing in their own country. our forefathers done their best to keep 32 county's, but failed. so we are down to 26 now. so what you gonna do, let them build on our 26 countys. cop on.
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Post by ballyboy on Mar 25, 2013 19:26:52 GMT
Evening folks, indeed its not a private matter there has been quite a few public meetings to date, with regard to the location and the proximity to Monasterevin,, nearest one to my knowledge is about 7 miles. darchangel I've been a transient self employed construction worker in this country for the last 25 years, it is the nature of the business, in that time I've worked on some of the biggest projects undertaken in this state I personally have never seen a bad one, I worked in Dublin city centre when it was a complete dump, the transformation of that city during the ''celtic tiger'' era was amazing. What went wrong was completely down to our banks and their greed and the incompetence/corruption of the politicians WE elected and why did we elect them, we elected them because they were giving us what we wanted and we didn't really care because we had money in our pockets, so imo we can't completely wash our hands of the mess were in now, how long were the cute hoor's in FF in power ??.
Forester you are entitled to you opinion but inmo its outdated, the day is long gone where we can live in a closeted society, partition was nearly 100 years ago now you'll have to get over it, our nearest neighbours are also our biggest trade partners, we have something that they need and we should exploit it, how come you don't have a problem with the Germans/Dutch building power stations that will be used for the same purpose??
There is no magic formula, renewable energy sources is the way to go, wind, solar, wave or bio take your pick, but some form of construction will be required for any one of these
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ros
Junior Member
Posts: 613
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Post by ros on Mar 25, 2013 20:38:38 GMT
It's been a long time since there was a good discussion on here, keep it going. My own tuppence worth, I wouldn't trust this government and the last one, FF, even less, to sell as little as a sod of turf. I don't see any harm in putting turbines in the middle of the Bog of Allen, provided they don't intrude on any domestic dwellings, by that I mean noise or flicker. I don't think that been able to see them is that big an issue. I pass Mount Lucas occasionally and called in one day to have a look. It does look like they are preparing for them, the are building a new road, it looks kind of temporary at the moment.
If they don't interference directly with people's houses, noise or flicker and there is some benefit financially, locally or nationally, then why not.
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Post by rightsoted on Mar 25, 2013 22:19:55 GMT
..top post Ros,agree 100%....any kind of interference on peoples health or home life is too big a price to pay no matter how many jobs,spin off's etc these projects bring.....
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Post by joepublic on Mar 26, 2013 0:29:16 GMT
This has nothing to do with Brits Vs Irish, if for E.G. the French wanted to do similar then all the same issues would arise. Pending planning permission - pay the landowners, do an environmental impact study, build the wind turbines, pipe the electricity out of the country, monitor and manage them remotely, maybe pay one or two locals to be available if any physical intervention required. Where is the ongoing benefit to the Irish economy once they are in place for years after?
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