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Post by Queenie on Oct 25, 2010 8:42:32 GMT
Should have said Raven, your view is beautiful, I wish I too could see that in the mornings, but without any of the hassle at night with drinkers etc. I have fields behind me and I would have a hissy fit if they were to disappear to a builder, but with Weston Aerodrome beyond my fields, hopefully it'll never come to that.
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Post by antigone on Oct 25, 2010 15:12:50 GMT
Raven, when is all this supposed to happen, where can plans , details etc be examined ? Thank you for highlighting this.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 25, 2010 21:01:27 GMT
Should have said Raven, your view is beautiful, I wish I too could see that in the mornings, but without any of the hassle at night with drinkers etc. I have fields behind me and I would have a hissy fit if they were to disappear to a builder, but with Weston Aerodrome beyond my fields, hopefully it'll never come to that. Thanks, Local. The residents keep it looking good. We usually have lots of squirrels but I haven't seen them around for a while. I hope they don't build in the fields behind your house. I doubt if they will. The new Planning and Development Amendment Act is against large developments outside towns.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 25, 2010 21:09:51 GMT
Raven, when is all this supposed to happen, where can plans , details etc be examined ? Thank you for highlighting this. Antigone, I don't know. A lot of people are against it. The plans are supposed to go on public view some time soon. Then there will be 4 weeks for submissions.
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Post by joepublic on Oct 25, 2010 22:06:46 GMT
There may have been more trees felled to build Abbey Farm at the beginning. I can't remember what was there. They took out a ditch between phase one and phase two, the line of mature trees along Killadoon Lane have protection and were not taken out. The only trees taken out were for a group of houses that came later but these trees were tall evergreens rather than the large beech, oak, pine etc. It was originally farm land used for grazing cattle and not a forest. There are trees along the Liffey and youths managed to fell some of them into the water by lighting fires at their bases just like the damage to some of the oak trees along by the Liffey in Castletown. In the case of Castletown the OPW are trying to protect the forest from further destruction, maybe there are better ways that could suit everyone.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 26, 2010 12:03:45 GMT
They took out a ditch between phase one and phase two, the line of mature trees along Killadoon Lane have protection and were not taken out. The only trees taken out were for a group of houses that came later but these trees were tall evergreens rather than the large beech, oak, pine etc. It was originally farm land used for grazing cattle and not a forest. There are trees along the Liffey and youths managed to fell some of them into the water by lighting fires at their bases just like the damage to some of the oak trees along by the Liffey in Castletown. Thanks, Joe. It is always interesting to hear about other estates and their history etc. It is a shame that the youths destroyed the trees in your estate. I am sure you will understand how sad it would be for you and your neighbours if the area along the river in your estate were to be fenced off to 'protect' it from further vandalism. It would be unthinkable. To date, the OPW have never done anything to maintain the forest. If they had even tried to make some effort to look after any part of the woods, one might believe that what they want is to protect them. However, they haven't, so the only conclusion one could draw is that their sole interest is to claw back as much of the original Castletown land as possible, ignoring the fact that local Celbridge people actually live on part of it, and a large section of the woods is their designated green open space. A fence is not going to stop vandalism, especially if it is open during the day. Even if it did work, it would have to be closed to the public completely for 24 hours a day, with no access to the public whatsoever. Is that what the public wants?
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Post by joepublic on Oct 26, 2010 17:13:23 GMT
[I am sure you will understand how sad it would be for you and your neighbours if the area along the river in your estate were to be fenced off to 'protect' it from further vandalism. It would be unthinkable. A fence was considered but not allowable under KCC's rules for access to the river. In the case of Castletown housing estate and Castletown House estate there is no clear defined boundary and OPW wants to draw the line and be able to control access, security and maintenance. ( My thoughts ) I thought the idea was so the OPW could have designated walks from Castletown House that included the woods and after hours the lands and woods around Castletown House could be closed off to the public similar to other such estates. OPW have plans to make Castletown Estate into a major tourist attraction and thus would need to be able to control access to the area. Only when OPW have clearly defined the boundaries will they embark on a clean up of the woods and whatever else needs doing. These are only my thoughts and I could be off the mark in places but it's how I would envisage some of the steps to be taken by OPW in transforming Castletown Estate into the tourist attraction they have in their plans. If I was living in Castletown housing estate I'd be fighting for the green spaces rightfully belonged to the estate. You say that OPW are trying to claim land that is not theirs. At the end of the day it will have to be proved what lands are belonged to whom. Possibly OPW and KCC will come to an agreement and nobody will ever know what happened behind closed doors, not even Castletown Residents Association.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 28, 2010 12:56:28 GMT
A fence was considered but not allowable under KCC's rules for access to the river. In the case of Castletown housing estate and Castletown House estate there is no clear defined boundary and OPW wants to draw the line and be able to control access, security and maintenance. ( My thoughts ) That is interesting about the access to the river. I believe the Castletown gates on the Main Street were closed for three days a couple of weekends ago, denying access to the demesne and river to children in buggies and people in wheelchairs. Is this a flavour of what is to come? There are clearly defined boundaries. There is no need for a fence to prove it. Where has the OPW communicated these plans to the people of Celbridge? Are you referring to some specific statement on their behalf? I have heard it said that the OPW has plans to make Castletown House and demesne into a major tourist attraction, but I have no conclusive evidence of this. If it is true, I have no problems with it, but not at the expense of the Celbridge community living next to it. The plans for the fencing off of the woods, and the transfer by lease of the green open space of Castletown housing estate, have taken place behind closed doors, without consultation with the residents. The KCC meeting to launch Part 8 of the process was held in private. The public and the press were excluded. This is an absolute disgrace! Yes, I believe you would. This should not be happening. I understand that Part 8 effectively means that the Council is granting itself planning permission for this. It would appear that the residents have no say in the matter and it is up to the councillors to vote for its adoption. There will be an opportunity to make submissions once the plans are on public display. However, my understanding is that the principle of the plan has been voted on, (2 councillors against and 4 in favour), and that the ‘submissions’ are only in relation to the actual fencing i.e. quality and positioning etc. No, I did not say that. I said that ‘ the only conclusion one could draw is that their sole interest is to claw back as much of the original Castletown land as possible’. The term ‘claw back’ was communicated to me verbally. We are fully aware of what lands belong to whom. It has been long established that the land in question was in the ownership of the developer of Castletown housing estate, and handed over to KCC as the green open space when KCC took over the estate. There is no point in speculating about ‘agreements’ at this point. However, I know we all resort to speculation at times, in an effort to arrive at the truth, especially when information on the facts is being denied.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 28, 2010 23:42:41 GMT
There is an article about the proposed fence and transfer of land on the front page of this week's Liffey Champion entitled 'Behind Closed Doors'. It is worth reading, but they didn't make it clear that the land in question is part of Castletown housing estate, the designated green open space of the residents. It is not part of Castletown House demesne.
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Post by sugarloves on Oct 31, 2010 8:16:16 GMT
why the hell is this allowed green space is for use of all not to be locked away and who owns the land the people who built the houses or the opw does anyone seem to know. an agreement will have to made for all who have an intrest in it.
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Post by The Raven on Oct 31, 2010 12:48:11 GMT
why the hell is this allowed green space is for use of all not to be locked away... Sugarloves, you are absolutely right. Why on earth are Kildare County Council proposing to hand away the designated green open space of Castletown housing estate? This is completely wrong-headed on their part. It appears to be a land grab on the part of the OPW. I have explained this in my post above: We are fully aware of what lands belong to whom. It has been long established that the land in question was in the ownership of the developer of Castletown housing estate, and handed over to KCC as the green open space when KCC took over the estate. The whole idea of county councils taking over the green open space in a housing estate is to prevent further development by the developers who built the estate. The erecting of the fence is a development that is to cost the OPW €1 million!! This is scandalous in the current economic climate, and is a complete waste of taxpayers' money.
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Post by joepublic on Oct 31, 2010 21:40:14 GMT
Let us know when the plans are on show in the Library please.
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Eddie
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Eddie on Nov 3, 2010 20:41:52 GMT
Hi For those of you reading ravens issue on the fencing and may live in the castletown housing estate be aware as part of this fencing process they intend to put 2 service gates at the back of the estate in woodview at the entrance to the woods at the end of the road and also at the gates into the farm and this in turn will mean service vehicles have to drive through our residential estate to get to them so not only are they taking away our 10% open space but they are giving us service traffic right through the estate.
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Post by joepublic on Nov 4, 2010 0:10:27 GMT
What area is "the farm"?
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Post by The Raven on Nov 4, 2010 1:27:10 GMT
Hi For those of you reading ravens issue on the fencing and may live in the castletown housing estate be aware as part of this fencing process they intend to put 2 service gates at the back of the estate in woodview at the entrance to the woods at the end of the road and also at the gates into the farm and this in turn will mean service vehicles have to drive through our residential estate to get to them so not only are they taking away our 10% open space but they are giving us service traffic right through the estate. Hi, Eddie. That is a very good point. There are actually 4 new service entries proposed: 3 within the housing estate and 1 on the Mound field. There are the 2 you mentioned above, and 1 at the top of the cul-de-sac in The Walled Gardens. That means that there will be OPW service traffic, driving regularly throughout our housing estate, causing noise and pollution, and posing a risk to the health and safety of the children playing outside most of the houses. My recollection was that they tried to do this in the past through the farmyard gate in Woodview, but were stopped. Now they are planning to do it again on a wider scale. This is an absolute disgrace! What right have the OPW got to this to a housing estate, especially as it is not their land!! This is no way to treat the residents of Celbridge! For the last three years, many of the Castletown residents worked tirelessly (and spent money), to protect Castletown House and demesne from the negative impact of the Donaghcumper development, with little or no help from the OPW. Now they turn around and repay us in this manner. Shame on them!!
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