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Post by Queenie on Jan 28, 2008 19:48:18 GMT
Your parents do have that right ChewChew, they are not handing you over to Satanists. They are doing what they see is best for you at the time. Don't forget it was drummed into us years ago that if a baby died before it was baptised it went nowhere, or to limbo! that may not be the thinking now, maybe it still is, not sure on that. But you can always change your religion if you wish, or not practise at all. My original post said only two things are important and I still stand by that, respect is the key to all religions, I don't think there is any religion out there that tells its followers to kill anybody, except maybe a few fundamentalists who change things around to suit their own twisted minds.
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Post by chewchew on Jan 28, 2008 21:48:05 GMT
Local, sorry but I would have to disagree with you. I do not believe my parents have the right to choose my religion for me. to me, a religion is a cult type society with which I do not really want to be a member of. this is why I said I would not baptise my children. I may have been rared a catholic but I would never make that choice for someone else.
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sifu
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Post by sifu on Jan 29, 2008 7:08:03 GMT
Localyokel
My pointing out the definition of 'Catholic' was in response to part of what you said previously, ie "Having said all that, is that Religion, I don't know, Catholic means Christian" 'Catholic' does not mean 'Christian'. To be a 'Christian' means to follow the teachings of Christ, being 'Catholic' just means you are part of an ordered church society, eg Roman Catholic. There are many atheists out there, and I know some, who are far better 'christians' than most 'roman catholics'.
Sifu
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Post by Queenie on Jan 29, 2008 9:24:57 GMT
You are right Sifu, but Catholic includes all Christians. Whereas Roman Catholic is just one part of it. But apart from all that, to be a Christian doesn't mean you have to be kneeling at the altar. I don't go to church, but I hope I am a good person, or even a christian, I don't believe the pope should have the power he has, I don't believe the Roman Catholic church should have all the money it does when so many of its congregation live in poverty, if they sold off some of their art works the money could get a couple of countries out of debt. There are many double standards in the Church, but what ChewChew is saying is that her parents had no right to baptise her, I'm saying they did, and they only did it out of love for her and what they had been brought up to believe. We all want to do what's best for our children. When you don't baptise children you musn't forget that this is a Roman Catholic country, no matter how many religions are now residing here. Children need a baptismal cert to get into most schools, if they decide to get married in a Church they need a cert too. Until all this changes why not baptise a child, instead of making it difficult for them later on in life. they can always change should they wish to, like any of us.
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sifu
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Post by sifu on Jan 29, 2008 11:50:57 GMT
Localyokel
I see you hold many of the views that I do in relation to the established church...ie, the richness of the vatican etc,. I cannot condone, in this day and age, an organisation such as the church, who have such a bad track record in the manner in which they carry out Christian values...the abuse of children, their dislike and suspicion of women, their refusal to allow priests to marry, their contstant interfeering in politics (and thereby wield great power), their inability to accept that anyone else other than themselves might be right in their religious views. Look back in time...the Inquisition, the Holy wars, the Knights Templars...all atrocities against people 'in the name of god'....and we condemn Islam? The Borgias or Borjas were a Spanish royal family remembered today for their corrupt rule of the Papacy during the Renaissance. They are in fact thought to be "history's first criminal family", and a forerunner to the Italian Mafia. The patriarch of the family, Roderigo Borgia, "became a bishop, cardinal and vice-chancellor of the church." He was later elected Pope, taking the name Alexander VI and kept that position for at least eleven years. Other infamous members of the Borgia family were Lucrezia Borgia and Cesare Borgia, daughter and son of Roderigo Borgia, respectively. Among the many accusations against the Borgia family, some are of incest, adultery, murder, and scandal.
Need I say more?
Sifu
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Post by Queenie on Jan 29, 2008 13:19:24 GMT
Very true, but, and it's a big but, we shouldn't condemn the many for the actions of the few, there are a lot of good priests out there, a lot of men who don't look down on women or molest children, but unfortunately that's the way of the world, we can all look back at history and see all the wrongs that were done, and are still being done in the name of Religion. Too many fanatics out there, and unfortunately they seem to hold the power,
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sifu
Junior Member
Posts: 100
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Post by sifu on Jan 30, 2008 16:48:05 GMT
Following on from the above discussions....I think the following fits neatly under this topic:
What are forum users views/beliefs in the 'Afterlife'?
Do we die....and that's it? or do we go to 'heaven' as per christian religion......or are we re-incarnated (Buddhist view) to keep returning (not always as human) until we reach understanding and enlightenment...or something else?
Sifu
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Post by Queenie on Jan 30, 2008 19:34:40 GMT
I hope there is an afterlife of some sort, I would hate to think that we die and that's it. Nobody has come back to tell us though, so maybe that's where faith comes into it. I'm not too sure about heaven as such, I don't think it's a place but maybe a state of mind, or soul? I'd hate to think what I might be reincarnated as, or maybe I am reincarnated, I wonder what or who I was before?
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Post by leeroadee on Jan 30, 2008 19:35:36 GMT
I'm coming back as a tub of ben and jerries
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Post by chewchew on Jan 30, 2008 19:46:38 GMT
I totally believe there is an after life. I honestly believe from the bottom of my heart that my dad is out there watching me but I dont know how or where from. I'm not sure I believe in heaven as we know it with the golden gates and all that crack but I do believe my own perception of heaven is what exists and its where I think we all go. Had I been asked this very question 3 years ago I would have said no way, no afterlife. we all just end up being dirt in the ground. but this time 3 years ago my dad was still alive. it was not untill he passed away that I thought beyond what I made myself believe. I think it is faith. and hope.
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Post by leeroadee on Jan 30, 2008 19:48:08 GMT
Wow they have crack in heaven I cant wait.Bet it's pure as well.
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Post by mrangry on Jan 31, 2008 14:55:20 GMT
I really don.t see the problem about baptizing children,babies.Alright so its hypocritical but so what?.The world would'nt be able to function without hypocrisy and all of us are guilty of it several times a day,every day.
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Post by Queenie on Jan 31, 2008 17:40:18 GMT
Well said Mr A.
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Post by chewchew on Jan 31, 2008 21:59:42 GMT
thats true but for something like this I feel very stronly about. I'm saying this now though. Things could change when I meet someone and we have children. but I'm saying that now. I really cannot predict what exactly might happen. I know though I would rather NOT baptise them.
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